Phil Heavilin
The factors we've seen this year with DOGE and with trade policies, tariffs, and of course, artificial intelligence, all these factors converging to really create a level of uncertainty.
Female Voice
From William & Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia. This is Leadership & Business, produced by the William & Mary School of Business and its MBA program. Offered in four formats: the full-time, the part-time, the online, and executive MBA. For more information, visit wm.edu.
Ken White
Welcome to Leadership & Business, the podcast that brings you the latest and best thinking from today's business leaders from across the world. Sharing strategies, information, and insight that help you become a more effective leader, communicator, and professional. I'm your host, Ken White. Thanks for listening. Ask someone to describe the current job market, and you're bound to hear a range of labels like soft, mixed, and even positive. However you see it, one thing's for sure, the current job market is unusual. Due to a number of factors, it seems like we've never experienced a market quite like this. If you're seeking or considering a new role, some of the traditional tactics still work. At the same time, it's important to adopt some new approaches as well. Phil Heavilin is Director of Internships and Applied Learning at William & Mary. He works for the University's Office of Career Development and Professional Engagement. Throughout his career, he's guided countless people through their job searches, from new grads to mid-level to senior-level professionals. He joins us on the podcast today to discuss the current job market, the influence of AI on the job search, and what you can do to make your job search successful. Here's our conversation with Phil Heavilin.
Ken White
Well, Phil, thanks so much for joining us. It's been a while. You were on the podcast a handful of years ago. It's great to have you back. Thanks for sharing your time and expertise.
Phil Heavilin
Yeah, thanks, Ken. I really appreciate the invitation back and looking forward to the conversation.
Ken White
You're the person I always reach out to. If I want to know anything about the market, if there's someone in the family who wants to know something, it's like, Let's talk to Phil. I'm glad you're sharing your expertise with our audience. The question I get, you get, I think people all over are saying the same thing, and that is, what's the job market currently look like? How do you define it or describe it?
Phil Heavilin
Yeah, I think we're all tired of using the term unprecedented, but there's just so many variables right now that are impacting how employers are thinking about their talent and what job seekers are doing to think about what the next move might be, whether it's a new college grad or someone who's mid-career and looking to make a transition. The factors we've seen this year with DOGE and with trade policies, tariffs, and of course, artificial intelligence, all these factors converging to really create a level of uncertainty in the market that we haven't seen, at least since the pandemic. Right now, employers really across the board, whether they're looking for entry-level talent or, again, mid-career, they're holding tight. In this level of uncertainty, their position is, let's hold and see what happens. That's the situation we're in, really, across most of the industries, with some exceptions.
Ken White
So, not the greatest time to be looking for work, but not impossible. Is that fair?
Phil Heavilin
I don't think it's ever impossible. There's always pockets of opportunity if folks are flexible, if they are willing to adapt and maybe think about the next step in ways that they haven't before, whether that's geographically or a different industry, or maybe even making a switch into a different function. I think there's always opportunities in any market.
Ken White
Are there any sectors that seem to be particularly open in hiring at this point?
Phil Heavilin
Yeah, there's several sectors that you can contribute this to the AI boom or investment that's happening in that space. But the infrastructure that is being expected to be built out, the hunger for electrical power to feed these data centers to power AI, has created some opportunities in terms of infrastructure. We had an interesting conversation with a William & Mary alumnus recently, who was an executive at NRG Energy in Houston. This is a utility that, in that space, they're not used to big jumps in their stock price from year to year. Their stock jumped 80% just from the last year, year over year. There's a lot of attention in utilities. Not so much oil and gas, and there's reasons for that, but there's definitely pockets. The National Association of Colleges and Employers puts out a jobs outlook report twice a year. In their fall report, they provided some insights into industries that are hiring those that might be scaling back. But health care is one that is always coming up. As the population ages, health care is going to be a space that is going to be hiring for some time to come. I mentioned construction. Aerospace is also an area that has seen some promise over the next year or so.
Ken White
Like you said, be flexible if you're looking. Let's say I worked, I don't know, for example, retail, but I realized there are some things in aerospace. How do I prepare myself mentally and professionally for a move that's completely out of the sector with which I'm familiar?
Phil Heavilin
A great question. I think, especially with MBA, either students or grads, the MBA positions you for those types of transitions, folks who are switching industries and functions, we call double switchers. I think it starts with just having a good perspective and outlook and a good sense of who you are, your strengths, what you might want to work on, because what you want to be able to do is articulate to that potential employer the transferability of your experiences and the skills that you've developed. They're now going to be relevant for what they're looking for. We all have that. Regardless of where we're at right now, it's common for folks to be in a position, and they've done all the things, and they're ready for a new challenge, and maybe they're ready to move out of a geographic region or get a different industry or function. It's really important to now very conspicuously lay it out for that potential employer. This is what I've done. This is what I've learned. This is what I've developed in skills and relationships. This is how it can be relevant for this position that you're looking for. Really laying it out for the employer in a very direct manner is something that they appreciate because they get a resume from someone who doesn't come from the industry, and their first question is, Why is this person applying?
Ken White
Absolutely.
Phil Heavilin
And so they need from the candidate a step-by-step, almost handholding, of why this job, why now?
Ken White
Yeah, great advice. We talked about some of the sectors that are looking pretty good in terms of jobs coming down the pike. Anything looking not so good in terms of sectors?
Phil Heavilin
Yeah, I think when we look at the news right now, we see a lot of layoffs, especially in the tech sector, but we also see some hiring in that space as well. And so you can get some mixed signals there. Retail is also one that has been laying off as a sector the last several months. It's going to be interesting to see what the holiday shopping season will bring this year. But this all could change. If some of those factors we talked about earlier change, if the Fed continues to decrease rates. That's going to encourage some investment in some of the space. And investment usually means hiring.
Ken White
Yeah, interesting. Let's talk about AI because that comes up often. How are employers using this? We know they've been screening resumes; for example, how are they using it today?
Phil Heavilin
Employers are using it in terms of their talent acquisition, recruiting process. They've been using it for, as you know, many years. Right now, especially for organizations that hire a lot of candidates during a recruiting season, they use it quite a bit at the beginning stages to assess resumes. That technology has, of course, been enhanced and improved over the years. When you have tens of thousands of resumes to review, it's just not feasible for a human to look at those. They've incorporated AI using their applicant tracking systems to help manage that workload. As coaches and as job seekers, mid-career folks, it's really important to look at the job description and be very cognizant of the terms that they're using and the descriptions of the work. Of course, in an ethical way, reflect that language back in the materials that you use because it's important for the applicant tracking systems for your resume to have those keywords, to have them in a repetitive way if possible, but also placement is important on those documents. There's strategies that you can take as a job seeker to enhance your chances of that applicant tracking system picking up your resume and getting it to the top of the pile.
Ken White
Yeah, and those applicant tracking systems, maybe 10 years now? They've been around a while.
Phil Heavilin
Been around for a while.
Ken White
Yeah. Most people know how to get the resume in line so you can show those transferable skills that do, in fact, match the job description.
Phil Heavilin
That's right. Now with applicant tracking systems, now it's in the interview process. There's applications that the employers are using now to not just review the first pass at resumes, but conduct the first round interview. There's platforms now that employers are deploying to. Candidates will log on to a platform and be asked to record a video, and it will score your video based on how many filler words are you using? Are you using eye contact? What's the dress look like? There's a lot of factors that they've incorporated into their algorithms to help score the video in a similar way as they have the resume.
Ken White
Is that fair? Is that a fair assessment?
Phil Heavilin
I think what employers will say is that it's really the only way that they can get through the amount. I think there are some considerations when you are writing those algorithms to be mindful of intrinsic biases and other things. But I will say that most recruiters don't really like them, and job candidates don't like them either. It's very uncomfortable.
Ken White
Of course, right. How many people like a camera in their face?
Phil Heavilin
Yeah, it is.
Ken White
But at least it gives them something.
Phil Heavilin
It gives them something, yeah.
Ken White
It's worth prepping and being ready for those.
Phil Heavilin
Absolutely.
Ken White
We'll continue our discussion with Phil Heavilin in just a minute. Our podcast is brought to you by the William & Mary School of Business. When it comes to choosing an MBA program, there's much to consider: the curriculum, fit, cost, quality, and the time it takes to earn your MBA. One major component is the learning environment. And for that, the William & Mary MBA program cannot be beat. For the fourth year in a row, Bloomberg Businessweek has ranked the William & Mary MBA program number one in America for learning. The faculty are simply outstanding, and the students support one another inside and outside the classroom. If you're thinking about pursuing an MBA, choose a program in which you'll learn, one that transforms you and takes you to the next level and beyond. Check out the MBA program at William & Mary at wm.edu. Now back to our conversation with Phil Heavilin.
Ken White
How are candidates using AI?
Phil Heavilin
Candidates are using AI in a variety of ways, certainly to build out their materials. There's a lot of resources now that can provide some assistance in building out and thinking through the structure of their bullet points on their resume, for example. There's a lot of great platforms for that. Job candidates are using it to help source individuals to network with, whether it's through LinkedIn. A lot of these tools are now incorporating more AI functionality into their platforms, and candidates are taking advantage of that. I was on LinkedIn, and they have role play functionality where you can say, LinkedIn, can you mimic an interview with me with this position, with this employer? And then you can have a mock interview before you have a real one. So candidates who are savvy are embracing this technology. I think those who do that are going to be at a strategic advantage when it comes to the job search.
Ken White
For those who decide in New Year's coming up, going to search, whether in their current field or somewhere else, are there some must-have skills that you've seen that most companies say, I'm really looking for this, in addition to some others, but what are some of the top skills?
Phil Heavilin
Yeah, great report. The challenger report that's put out provides a nice, comprehensive list of skills that employers are looking for across industries, across functions. You can even drill down to specific industries, emphasize more skills over others. But right now, what employers are looking for is they're looking for a high level of agility and adaptability, just given the labor market that we're in and the business market, it's changing just so rapidly that it's really important that job candidates, but also employees, don't get too comfortable because their job, their work is probably going to change, and so they need people who are embracing that level of change, and so they're looking for it. That's one that's really up there. Analytical thinking is also one that is coming up on those surveys from employers. It's really important for job candidates, again, whether you're a new grad or seasoned professional, is think about those skill sets and then think about your experience and the stories that you're going to use to help convey that this is something I've developed and I can bring to this organization. Here's my analytical thinking story. Here's my communication story. Here's my story where I had to adapt and be successful. That's going to help you set you apart from other candidates.
Ken White
Just listening to you talk, I'm thinking, if I'm looking, I don't know this. Maybe a coach, is that a good idea to reach out to someone who can help me?
Phil Heavilin
I think it's always helpful to have a third party. Whether it's someone who's a professional career coach, if you have a university degree, you usually have access to career advisors at your alma mater, or if there's a trusted advisor in your network, someone who's within the industry or someone who's been a mentor to you, just someone who can give you some unbiased third-party feedback is incredibly valuable because there's just so many blind spots that we have as individuals. We think we might be good at something, and it might be an area where we do need some improvement. It's incredibly valuable to engage with a mentor or career advisors to get that perspective.
Ken White
When we're talking earlier about AI, what are employers in general saying that applicants need to know about AI? We hear so much about it might replace jobs and so forth. What's an applicant need to know?
Phil Heavilin
The NACE report asked employers about this. Right now, at least those who took the survey, about 10% have incorporated AI platforms into the job descriptions. They're putting in there. Hey, we are looking for people who have experience with platforms like ChatGPT. We're going to see more of that. Employers are going to be looking for candidates who have embraced this technology, and they're incorporating it into their work. Being able to show that how you've incorporated AI and it's led to efficiencies in your work is going to be another way that you're going to stand apart from other candidates. It's going to be really important for folks to, if you're not typically an early adopter, this might be the time to be an early adopter of technology because the inertia is heading us in that direction.
Ken White
We're seeing more and more companies, obviously, adopt it, right?
Phil Heavilin
That's right.
Ken White
Do you see it replacing jobs or changing jobs?
Phil Heavilin
This really gets fascinating. I wish I did have a more clear crystal ball because the continuum of opinions is why there's some who say within the next year to two years, up to half of white-collar jobs will disappear. That seems to be extreme, but I think what we don't know is every new technology has definitely changed the landscape, and AI is going to fundamentally change the labor market. What we don't know is the opportunities that it will likely create. There's going to be jobs that, whether it's prompt engineers or working in cybersecurity, that are going to be needed. It's going to be interesting to see how that plays out over the next several years. It's going to happen. We just don't know, I think, the extent to which it will change the labor market and the timeline. That's why it goes back to we have to embrace it and be adaptable to the change because we're all on this ride together.
Ken White
It's funny. Somebody gave me a couple media clippings about AI and what it's intent, what it's going to do the job market. One convinced me we are doomed, and the other one convinced me we're just fine. Yeah, who knows? We're just going to have to ride it out and see what happens.
Phil Heavilin
That's right. I think there's a political perspective, too. I think if it happens too fast, it's going to cause a lot of consternation, I think, within our society and without some guardrails. I think there may be a concern from folks about losing their job and how are they going to support themselves, and that's a valid concern. It's going to be interesting to see how the technology unfolds and how the labor market adapts, but also what guardrails might be put up so the severity doesn't get so bad that there's a lot of civil unrest.
Ken White
Interesting market. A lot of technology. Is networking still important?
Phil Heavilin
More so than ever, I think, especially now as we move into the holiday season, this is a great opportunity for individuals to connect with folks within their network, especially if you are thinking about making a move. Companies are looking for folks, again, whether it's entry-level or mid-career, who have some industry experience or relevant experience. If you don't have that, it's time to make connections with people who are in that target industry, ask their advice, get their insights, and start getting some of that experience onto your resume, some way, shape, or form. Now is the time to do it. I would also call back to one of your previous guests, Professor Carboni, who had a great podcast on networking. I love the assignment of going back last couple of years and finding someone, former employer, former colleague, and connect with them because it's going to be about relationships the next several years.
Ken White
That's our conversation with Phil Heavilin. And that's it for this episode of Leadership & Business. Our podcast is brought to you by the William & Mary School of Business, home of the MBA program offered in four formats: the full-time, the part-time, the online, and the executive MBA. Check out the William & Mary MBA program at wm.edu. Thanks to our guest, Phil Heavilin, and thanks to you for joining us. I'm Ken White, wishing you a safe, happy, and productive week ahead.
Female Voice
We'd like to hear from you regarding the podcast. We invite you to share your ideas, questions, and thoughts with us by emailing us at podcast@wm.edu. Thanks for listening to Leadership & Business.
Ask someone to describe the current job market and you're bound to hear a range of labels like "soft," "mixed," and even "positive." However you see it, one thing's for sure: the current job market is unusual. Due to a number of factors, it seems like we've never experienced a market quite like this. If you're seeking or considering a new role, some of the traditional tactics still work. At the same time, it's important to adopt some new approaches as well. Phil Heavilin is director of Internships and Applied Learning at William & Mary. He works for the university's Office of Career Development and Professional Engagement. Throughout his career, he's guided countless people through their job searches, from new grads, to mid-level, to senior level professionals. He joins us today to discuss the current job market, the influence of AI on the job search, and what you can do to make your job search successful.